welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world
with me George Galloway and me gayathri
well they know a thing or two about
democracy in Greece and on Sunday they
chose the most radical left-wing
government elected in Europe since the
1930s and it is the 1930s in Greece is
50% youth unemployment mass poverty a
suicide epidemic fascist on the Mars and
the state being dismantled on the demand
of other states the left-wing syriza
party together with other radical forces
including a party called the river and
the Greek Communists who won 32 seats
between them now has a clear mandate and
majority for an end to what they call
austerity a 1930s words for making the
working people pay for the failures of a
system over which they had no control
and for which they now refused to take
responsibility the other states found it
hard to muster much in a way of
enthusiasm for the Greek people's
verdict in fact hair yonkers the head of
the EU sent the tweet congratulating the
city's a leader on his election as
president well he's in fact new prime
minister joining us now to survey the
scene from the Sputnik is dr basilis
monastery artists from the prestigious
london school of economics professor the
verdict came as not much of a surprise
though there were some surprising
elements PASOK being reduced to five
percent having once towered over Greek
politics for decades the Golden Dawn the
fascist formation over play explicitly
fascist swastika senal becoming the
third party in Greece but Cerises
winning the majority though just one
seat short of a parliamentary majority
wasn't a surprise tinkles true of you
would your your reading of the election
results as a whole I think there's two
elements in the series are
one is of course the repeal of the
anti-austerity rhetoric and ideas that
have of course a huge appeal in increase
people have been suffering for many
years and they did not see either an end
to this austerity program but also did
not see the foods of austerity did not
see there is a stabilization if you want
of the economy it is not declining
anymore as it has been in previous years
but they did not see the job creation
did not see the increases in income that
one would associate of course with the
end of austerity so this very much a
public support for the change in policy
in the direction of ending austerity and
cities that was the most credible of the
parties promising thought I think also
there's another element of the
dissatisfaction of big parts of the
public and of the elect a traditional
electorate of the electrodes of the
traditional parties of the centre-left
and satellite at this satisfaction with
the way they implemented the policies
the way to communicate the policies and
the way they also engaged in
negotiations with the with the European
Union the eurozone partners the policies
inglis have not been near as effective
the austerity policies nearly as
effective as in other places in southern
Europe they have been painful across the
south of the eurozone but they have been
particularly painful increase partly
because of the way they were half
implemented and not directed towards
supporting essentially supporting growth
how serious is syriza which is a very
new party it has a lot of leftist
rhetoric how serious are they about
challenging the orthodoxy of the EU on
this matter I think overall syriza has
is absolutely serious and committed to
challenging the main some of the main
premises of the EU and special of the
eurozone of the EMU architecture how it
is built on the idea of fiscal
discipline of the idea of of balanced
budgets and of course price stability of
full employment as a priority so they're
very much they both above committed to
challenging that and they also have an
alternate
the proposal an alternative vision for a
Europe which is more geared up for the
peoples by Europe for the markets so to
speak and the other new power in Greek
politics but there's not really a new
party so the party has a lot long
history obviously they come out of the
Communist Party historically but they in
different formations this this political
area has been active in in Greek
politics both in Parliament and also in
society so they have the organizational
structure the Heather appeal to
particular segments of society and they
know how to take the priorities forward
what they do not have is any experience
vast majority of them did not have an
experience with government so this big
uncertainty about how they will handle
both governing Greece the country but
also the negotiations with the givers
and partners all I ask because the
markets were very calm as a result of
their result you wouldn't have expected
that the new finance minister quickly
ruled out any exit from the euro the
so-called grexit which really would have
set the dominoes tumbling across
southern Europe and the decision to form
their formal coalition with the
so-called independent Greeks which did
not require any problematic negotiation
of any kind really just the placing of
various personnel in ministries rather
than a negotiation with the river or
with the KKE the Communist Party which
would have required a programmatic
dialogue and line by line agreement yes
and it seems paradoxical but it was
actually easier to form a coalition with
independent cakes given the
circumstances both parties have a
nuptial priority on anti-austerity and
against the memorandum that Greece's the
great governments have signs there with
the troika and politically they come
from very different traditions obviously
the independent Greeks
our populace right-wing party and with
very regressive you take views on
migration on national security on social
rights you know gay marriages and so
forth so it is very paradoxical in that
sense that syriza found them as the
coalition partner but for all practical
purposes what really matters for gays in
the next few months at least is a common
stance on the issue of austerity and the
bailout agreement and that they are
indeed in full agreement they would have
much more and much more difficult task
in baking an agreement either with the
communist party who are adamant on on
the proposition that we should exit the
European Union and this was something
that syriza didn't want to negotiate or
two to entertain as a thought for the
policy proposal all for the river the
Patani which is a center-left basically
a party newly formed party and for them
a maintaining the country in inside the
eurozone and committing to a an agenda
of structural reforms was an absolute
red line so they would say this I would
then have to negotiate very very
difficult negotiation with the river
dupatta me on what kind of structural
reforms in which would which ones would
go in the direction of liberalizing
markets which would go in a direction of
perhaps increasing efficiency in the
economy but not making they call me more
open to markets so it came very
naturally that the coalition was formed
between the independent greeks and
syriza and i do not expect to have any
sort of frictions of disagreements
between them until the issue of the of
austerity and the bailout agreement is
resolved one way or another hmm let me
ask you about the Golden Dawn this
Europe's most successful explicitly
fascist formation how did they do how
did they outdo expectation a more role
are they likely to play in this new
parliamentary scene
I think at least in the short term they
will play not all in the parliamentary
scene no party wants to have any kind of
relation with them at least our presence
there has been room also some evidence
that the new democracy the previous
government party had links or some
members of it had some links with the
gold Golden Dawn members at the moment
nobody is associating with them in any
way in in any case the leadership of the
party is still in custody awaiting trial
the part is not illegal organization
behind the party has been deemed as a
criminal organization and there's a
trial partly for that it must be said
that the lecture successful Golden Dawn
is not an accident no matter how much
work would like to think that it is an
accident there is support for the views
of corded or not maybe not the most
extreme of them but there is definitely
an anti-migrant sentiment so this goes a
long way to explain why Citizen both
patriotic and wearing Germans wash the
car type insignias on their arm it's not
the only God's mmm yes absolutely well I
mean cities are having one of the
election spectacularly do you think this
will influence or perhaps empower other
left-wing radical if you will far left
parties in the rest of Europe I think
absolutely guessing you can see how
prevent mostly acted and engaged in
syriza in Spain yes and how they reacted
to the to the city's victory I think we
also see signals to that effect even
from Italy and France where we don't
have a radical left but we have a
socialist center left the government's
in both countries and they were much
more positive in the in relation to the
cities of victory than other governments
not the only social democrat who who
didn't work him up with a Ed Miliband
but for his sake that the new Greek
government didn't read his response i
want to go a minute or so a minute and a
half let me ask you one thing about
pasok i was once a great admirer or
papandrea the father mainly for his
foreign policy stands the Palestinians
on Sean his son then became the prime
minister they were a family of some note
paso cuz now it would appear plunged
into oblivion will they ever come back
it has it seems extremely unlikely I
wouldn't think they will be able to come
back they got four point seven percent
of the of the vote and they facing big
challenge ahead in terms of feather
split perhaps there is a party
conference being scheduled quite soon
but I think they have more things that
divide them done things that unite them
there is a part of a shock of course
that will be perhaps a backbone of a
future formation in the center left but
I would doubt very much that it would be
called pisaq professor as a tour the
horizont that was a tour de force thank
you very much indeed thank you coming on
the sputnik coming up after the break a
well-known and controversial former
member of the British Cabinet about the
most well-known most controversial
British minister of them all Winston
Churchill don't miss it
welcome back to Sputnik 50 years ago
this week the remains of Sir Winston
Churchill were taken by barge from the
British Parliament down the Thames with
every grain along the river bowing in
respect as he passed by mr. Churchill
was the only commoner of the 20th
century allowed to lie in state in the
palace of westminster upon his demise he
had been a member of the House of
Commons for 64 years the right Honorable
Andrew Mitchell MP like Churchill is a
Tory though like him a surprisingly
undocked ranier one he's a former
cabinet minister with responsibility for
International Development and he joins
us now but before he speaks gayatri red
gloves and all asked the London public
what they thought of Winston Churchill
he was a great talker and a very
powerful leader and did a lot for our
country in retrospect whether people
like it or not he still helped this
country in a massive way yeah I think he
was a great british man um he was a good
leader of his time misunderstood i think
it is you and then he came good when he
needed to whereas amazing render these
amazing things um and he was very brave
made a brave decisions um unimportant
I'm believe you've won the war for
Brennan well he was the leader at the
time for world war two day did a good
job Andrew Mitchell unanimous there and
that doesn't surprise me but what does
surprise me is the deluge of negativity
we got about Churchill on the
twittersphere which is goes to show how
out of touch some people can be some
people especially on the left because
the truth is if not for Winston
Churchill if he had not become Prime
Minister in 1940 you and I would have
been conducting this interview and
German if indeed we were alive to
conduct it isn't that the case yes I
mean he had a curiously up-and-down
career I've just been reading Boris
Johnson's appreciation to group of
Winston Churchill on the 50th
anniversary and it's interesting the
extent to which she got some of the
things wrong that he did but he was the
right man
in the right place at the right time in
1939-40 he'd been warning about what was
going to happen with extraordinary
perceptiveness and come 1940 came the
right man at an incredibly difficult
time as a result of which we're not
speaking German as he is that and in the
Boris Johnson book which is quite a fine
piece of work even though it's Boris
channeling Churchill threw himself as a
as a potential leader of the
Conservative Party it is salutary to
remind ourselves as the book does as
some other books carefully omit the
strength of the surrender party at the
time in the British establishment and
when mr. Churchill said that not until
the last of us is lying on the cabinet
floor choking in our own blood will we
surrender he meant it and the
establishment a piece part a new that he
meant it there were a lot of fifth
columnist surround at that time well
there was a powerful group it comes out
rather well actually in the Boris
account in the early days when he had
just become Prime Minister a very
powerful group who were very worried
that Britain simply was not going to be
able to win and the power of the
arguments of the appeases was very clear
that I think Churchill's genius was to
see that there was no deal that was
possible and that this was going to be a
fight to the death and it was that
clarity of vision and planning and some
quite skillful political maneuvering in
the cabinet at the time which got him
out of scare into second gear thank
goodness the left criticism of him
focuses on partially a misreading of
some important episodes in his life but
he was not a doctrinaire Tory you could
make a
argument I could that he wasn't really a
Tory at all and indeed he ratted and
rerouted for years as a conservative
party crossing the floor to the then
liberals crossing back to the
Conservatives but actually with some
quite solid progressive reforms to his
to his credit yes I mean he was he had a
very strong social conscience the social
reforms which you refer are hugely to
his credit and as for his positioning in
the Tory party given that he had had
been a liberal it's quite difficult to
pin down but often Tory positioning is
quite difficult to pin down um but but
he did make mistakes he was wrong about
the abdication he was wrong about India
the Dardanelles campaign but his
extraordinary bravery and the accounts
of when he was wounded and when he was
hurt and so forth his extraordinary
bravery his his real strong patriotism
and his clarity of vision at certain key
moments in his career and in our
national life that's why I suspect in
your film you got a cross-section a
hundred percent more or less in in favor
of saluting him as a great if not the
greatest Englishman and why I think you
know he goes down in our in our national
pantheon in such a very high in elevated
case at the critical moments his clarity
saved our country he was a wordsmith
extraordinaire I mean he wrote millions
upon millions of words received the
nobel prize for literature but one of
the best things he ever wrote and this
something up your street and mine with
our mutual interest in in Africa and in
the Sudan he fought at the omnimon was
disgusted by the mass slaughter wrought
by the Gatling gun but even more
disgusted by the conduct of those who
dug up the
Maddie from the tomb cut off the head
and played football with the skull
chacho exposed this crime to the British
public in the pall mall gazette he was
quite breathtakingly audacious ER with
the pen as well as with the sword yes
which of course in politics is a hugely
valuable ability to do that I've just
been reading the biography of Roy
Jenkins there's a up for a prize this
week and he had the same when remarkable
ability to write extremely well and as
well as to get across his political
views through the speeches he made when
I retired Roy Jenkins from the house of
your hands and for which he thanked me
he much preferred the red carpets of the
House of Lords speaking of our red
carpets and Winston Churchill was always
in the House of Commons why does he
never become a lord I think you know
there's no former Prime Minister's I
think knowingly in the House of Lords
and you know he stayed to a very great
age external I mean he stayed in the
commons for as long as he possibly could
I think that when he left the commons
that was hymns leaving from from
westminster's clearly the right decision
I was just going to make the point about
Roy Jenkins Jenkins begun his tremendous
biography of Churchill not really buying
much of the Churchill myth but by the
end having had to carefully examine all
the papers and all the arguments he
wrote at the end of that biography that
he considered Churchill the most amazing
human being ever to occupy yes any
officer Prime yes I think I think most
people who have written about it comes
crossing Boris's book as well come away
from a close examination of the original
sources with their already elevated
respect even further enhanced and you
know that's a that's encouraging because
a lot of these biographies paint Winston
Churchill warts and all but
that is the invariable conclusion which
their biographers reach speaking of
painting of warts and all it said that
that lady churchill burned grim
Sutherlands portrait of him because
although he very generously received it
he apparently hated it I rather like it
what do you think I remember
understanding why Lady churchill didn't
like it but whether that was because she
didn't like it as an appreciation of art
or didn't like it because her husband
didn't appreciate it history doesn't
tell we mustn't burn portraits warts and
all what lesson or what can we draw from
Churchill's life now as we look back on
it fifty years on after his demise
clearly Boris sees something of
Churchill in himself American by
extension very maverick political stance
posing with the ak-47s in Kurdistan just
last week is George is Boris Johnson
potentially another charger well I
character history doesn't repeat itself
in the same way thank goodness and Boris
after all was asked to write this rather
good and splendid biography appreciation
after 50 years he was asked to do it I
think he set to that task were the same
vim and vigor which he sets to
everything and did a very good job I'll
take that as a yes I'll take that as
Boris Johnson appreciation ok we're
looking back Winston Churchill 50 years
on in a nutshell was he the greatest of
them all well as Prime Minister there
are other prime ministers in the last
150 years who you could say were great
and who had extraordinary
characteristics and extraordinary
virtues but given the time when Winston
Churchill was Prime Minister and the
challenge that our country faced I think
that without
he was the greatest occupant ever of
number 10 Andrew Mitchell great to see
you again thanks very much for coming on
the sputnik I now it's your turn to tell
us what you think through the portals of
social media what's rattling gayatri
okay Cowen's on the grease result
includes max weight saying they had no
money before and now they have none but
they do have self-determination freedom
respect and solidarity that's a lot more
than they had before well done nine riaz
kazi instead says it will be the same as
Obama's election slogan yes we can his
Nobel Peace Prize and we all know the
rest of history bit of death that's just
a little bit of the Barack Obama about
the syriza leader but I don't want to be
too intent on Churchill we received a
lot of hostility and filthy common look
hate me LOL you Jim hate me well then AB
Kamal says Churchill was the bush of his
time racist aristocrat Alison done
something of saying all powerful leaders
have unpalatable flaws Churchill will be
chiefly remembered however for being a
lone voice denouncing the Nazis in the
early 30s and insisting on war when
appetite for war so soon after the first
was so low he rallied Europe against a
significant evil whether he was a fat
drunk or not hardly methicillin lose fat
he drank and he smoked a chain smoke to
Havana cigars and he lived till he was
90 and that's all that we've got time
for this week which alas means that's
the end of the show you can stay in
touch with us on Twitter on RT
underscore Sputnik and on facebook on
Sputnik on Russia today goodbye for me
guy Anthony I'm from me George Galloway
it's been marvelous